Fundraising Leadership ™

Executive Coaching, Leadership Training, and Personal Development

Ep 159: Leadership and Emotional Intelligence

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Ep 159: Leadership and Emotional Intelligence
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David and Margaret dive into the ways that Leadership and Emotional Intelligence can help when relationships get hard. They announced a free masterclass on June 4th, 2025, to provide tools for improving emotional awareness and communication.

Reading the Space

Margaret shares that for the recording of the podcast, she is wearing an orange sticky note. After a rough relationship moment before recording the podcast, the color orange is for her a symbol of possibility and enthusiasm. This concept is drawn from their leadership training, where they used colors as a code for the hard-to-describe emotions and energy that are often unacknowledged in conversations and in rooms. It’s a way to talk about “reading the space.”

They explain how they learned to recognize what’s in the space by naming colors like blue, which represents permission to feel sadness in service of creating emotional intimacy.

Exploring How Men and Women Differ on Emotional Intelligence

David acknowledged his ongoing journey in emotional intelligence and expressed appreciation for Margaret’s support.

The duo wonder, do men have additional challenges in expressing and recognizing their emotions? Cultural norms often discourage men from expressing emotions and being vulnerable, and encourage anger as an alternative.

They explore the importance of acknowledging and accepting emotions in the conversation without immediately trying to change the texture. Many of us have an impulse to cheer things up or steer conversations away from topics that feel hearvy. And men often seem to be taught to alter conversations rather than accept them as they are. They also touched on the societal expression of anger, noting that while some find it easier to confront anger with anger, this approach can lead to contention.

What Do Leadership and Emotional Intelligence Have To Do with What’s Going On NOW?

The environment of the world right now feels challenging to many — and it can have a big impact on personal relationships. External stressors, such as global and political events, can affect our emotional capacity. And when our emotional capacity feels full or flooded, then we can react unskillfully in personal and professional relationships.

Tuning into world events seems these days to lead to increased stress and emotional fatigue. Many of us are feeling at capacity right now.

For example, the same situations can trigger different reactions, depending on one’s emotional state. When we are calm, we can be spacious. But if we are already stressed out, the same set of circumstances can make us blow.

So what can we do?

Margaret emphasized the importance of skills to help people navigate these challenges, which was the inspiration for their upcoming masterclass, called “Manage Your Inner Chaos.”

One Skill To Start With

One starting point in navigating hard days is to recognize emotional triggers in relationships. How do our hosts know they are triggered?

David shared his experience of feeling judged during a recent Christian men’s group meeting, which led to a physical reaction in his gut. He knows that feeling means he’s getting triggered. David also mentioned that feeling his face and chest flush is another one. It points to feelings of shame, which he has learned to recognize and address, rather than being controlled by them. Margaret described her own physical cues when triggered, which include rubbing her face and fidgeting.

By learning to notice these triggers, we take an important step towards preventing reactive behavior in relationships.

Join Us To Learn More

The the two invite listeners to save their spot at their upcoming free masterclass on June 4th at 12 noon Eastern.

The one-hour session will focus on tools for managing difficult emotions and improving emotional intelligence. It will provide practical skills and introduce participants to a follow-on program about self-sabotage and relationships.

Ep 158: Using Your Mind for a Healthier and Happier Life

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Ep 158: Using Your Mind for a Healthier and Happier Life
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Margaret and David discuss David’s new book, “Using Your Mind for a Healthier and Happier Life.”

David’s most recent book is a series of short essays inspired by Buddhist teachings. It blends principles of psychology, mindfulness, and leadership to provide actionable strategies that foster happiness, health, and resilience in life.

Nuggets of Wisdom, Nuggets of Love

David shares the inspiration for the book, which started with sayings from the Buddha, which have been passed on by disciples and followers.

Many of the early chapters focus on the concept of non-duality, a Buddhist concept. In these essays, David writes about the spectrum between apparent opposites like love and hate.

On the topic of love, David touches on different types of love, referencing C.S. Lewis’s work.

David and Margaret discuss how love might be a bridge to today’s societal polarization. They challenge listeners: how might you use love to begin softening? Margaret and David are on opposite sides of the political spectrum — and have used their friendship and respect for each other not to shut each other down or abandon each other.

If you can’t get to a place of openness using your mind, Margaret suggests a somatic way to open your heart. David introduces curiosity as another tool to open.

A Stoic Father

David discusses his father’s influence on his writing and life philosophy.

David talks about his father’s wisdom as a voice in his head. Much about David was informed by growing up as a philosopher’s son. While his father was not particularly warm or fuzzy, David remembers his father as exuding charm and warmth, especially with students and friends.

David’s father was a Stoic, although David acknowledges that his father’s interpretation of stoicism led to withholding affection. That was both strengthening and hurtful. He reflects on how he now embraces his father’s “less is more” philosophy in his own life, living in a small space with few material possessions.

David’s newest project involves movie quotes, which reflect his father’s love for film.

 

On Anger

David discusses the role of emotions, particularly anger, in several chapters of the book, including how they interact with personal growth and relationships.

In one of the essays, he talks about how emotions like anger should not be denied but approached with caution. Anger, David says, is an emotion served hot. It can be both useful and harmful. Anger serves an important purpose, such as establishing boundaries and motivating action against injustice. But it can be messy and imprecise.

On one hand, it’s essential to express anger and have difficult conversations to relieve built-up tension, rather than avoiding conflict.  But when expressed unskillfully, anger can also be destructive.

Grace is important in dealing with anger, both for the person expressing it and the person receiving it.

A Podcast Rebrand Preview: The Leadership Spelunk

The duo announce a rebranding of their podcast to “The Leadership Spelunk.” Margaret and David are planning to strap on their headlamps and explore some of the deeper crevices of leadership. Expect more details soon.

David’s book Using Your Mind for A Healthier and Happier Life is a transformative guide revealing the profound connection between your mind and your resolve to lead a fulfilling life. Get your copy of the book on Amazon here.

Ep 157: Choice in Personal Growth and Leadership

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Ep 157: Choice in Personal Growth and Leadership
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Choice in Personal Growth and Leadership

Margaret and guest and fellow fundraising professional Jenny Mitchell address the power of choice and its impact on personal growth, leadership and decision-making.

The conversation opened with the age-old nonprofit challenge about how navigating board relationships is challenging for most nonprofit leaders. They explored how choice can help these and other relationships.

As leaders, we always have choices — often more than they initially thought. Realizing this can lead to a shift in mindset and behavior.

We Have More Choice than We Thought

Margaret shared a story about a time she was stuck in a tough relationship, and her close friend reminded her she always had more choices than stay or go. The friend jokingly suggested that a poison dart to the neck is a choice — even if not a recommended one. We don’t have to use all the choices, but knowing we have them creates possibility.

Jenny recalled parenting teenagers and wanting to provide choices to her kids. She found that if she and her kids could co-create the choices, it always went better. She also found power in choosing not to do something, which is, of course, also a choice.

General Strategies To Find More Choice

Jenny introduced the language of “solution strategies.” She finds that the idea of problem solving often creates only two solutions, as well as an idea that one is right and the other wrong. A Solution Strategy focus more on more flexibility and creativity in finding solutions.

They also discussed the concept of taking small steps towards improvement, rather than trying to solve everything at once. Stepping out of overwhelm can often create more choice.

And a third strategy is to discern between the Judger and the Learner. The judge is the one that shuts down an idea as too expensive or already-been-tried. The learner, on the other hand, tries to keep an open mind to possible solutions and explore each idea in the here and now.

Working with Nonprofit Boards Is Hard … Where Can Choice Help?

Difficult board relationships often put things into an “us versus them” perspective.

One place both women see space for choice when working with a board is by choosing to assume positive intent until they prove otherwise.

In addition, Jenny emphasized how useful it can be to choose to slow down and seek to understand others’ perspectives, rather than jumping to conclusions. Asking for a clarification is a solid leadership choice.

Jenny also suggests “mining for mineral rights,” or looking for what might be happening below the surface. Sometimes what people are saying doesn’t communicate what they are actually concerned about.

They also touched on the importance of taking a moment to collect thoughts before responding to challenging situations. In other words, taking a deep breath is a choice too.

We can also choose to disagree and to view disagreement as a natural part of the decision-making process rather than a disaster.

More Conscious Choices for High Achievers

Jenny and Margaret discuss the importance of making conscious choices in professional and personal life, particularly for those in the nonprofit sector. Jenny introduces the concept of “high-value tasks” and suggests breaking complex projects into manageable pieces. Margaret believes there are parallels between scarcity mindsets regarding time and money, and that there is a tendency for high achievers to adopt a martyr mentality. The “rescuer” is a common archetype in the nonprofit sector. Jenny recommends asking ourselves, “If I truly loved myself, what would I do?”

They address how we can choose to manage a situation rather than to solve it.

Switching Mindsets in Meetings Challenge

Jenny offers a challenge to listeners to practice switching from a judger to a learner mindset at the beginning of their next meeting or conversation. She suggests using a physical reminder or visualization technique to help make this shift.

Jenny is the Chief Visionary Officer of Chavender. She is a dynamic speaker, executive coach, host of the Underdog Leadership podcast, and fellow fundraising geek. She is an author of Embracing Ambition: Empowering Women to Step Out, Be Seen, and Lead, which unites 12 exceptional women leaders with one common goal: to share their leadership stories as a mentorship resource for the next generation of women leaders.

Ep 155: Handwritten Letters to Foster Relationships

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Ep 155: Handwritten Letters to Foster Relationships
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David and Margaret and their special guest, Amy Daughters, tackle the dying art of using handwritten letters to foster relationships.

Wait, like handwritten letters? With a pen?

These days, kids can’t even read cursive. They don’t know where to put stamps on an envelope.

It might be a dying art. But our hosts want our listeners to consider that maybe we shouldn’t let it die.

 

That Time I Wrote to EVERY ONE of My Facebook Friends …

Amy  is a letter writer, a satirist, a keynote speaker, a sports writer, and the author of two books. She believes we can “blow the doors” off connection with handwritten letters.

Her story begins when she found an old camp friend on Facebook. They had been out of touch with for decades. She learned that her friend Dana and and her son, Parker, were going through a difficult time with cancer. After reading about their journey, Amy felt compelled to write handwritten notes of encouragement to Dana.

Amy kept writing letters for weeks. And eventually Amy’s act of kindness through handwritten letters led to a deep and meaningful connection with Dana.

This experience inspired Amy to write 580 letters to every one of her Facebook friends, leading her to write Dear Dana: That time I went crazy and wrote all 580 of my Facebook friends a handwritten letter. The book chronicles her journey and how she discovered the power of letter writing in connecting people and fostering meaningful relationships.

Ultimately, 75 percent of the letter recipients responded in some way and the experience changed Amy’s life.

 

The Connection between Handwriting and Our Brains

Margaret shared a personal experience about handwriting and memory — and how she learned they are connected. The story involved loaning her notes to a friend in middle school. When her friend forgot to return the notes before the test, she learned that writing by hand helped her retain the information she needed. Later in life, Margaret discovered sometimes she could find new wisdom when she journaled by hand.

David was inspired to start the practice of handwritten “morning pages” by the book The Artist’s Way. He continues to find creativity and inspiration when he invites himself to sit down with an old-fashioned pen and notebook.

 

We Both Touched THIS Piece of Paper

Our hosts discussed the significance how physical touch connects us through handwritten letters. As in, when you receive a letter, you know that the writer also held that exact piece of paper.

That helps handwritten letters feel more intimate. Additionally, they reveal the recipient’s personality from their handwriting as well as the sender’s imperfections.

David recalled finding an old box of letters in a recent move. The box held letters were from his grandfathers and were written 40 years ago. He shared what a powerful experience it was for his grandfathers to come alive again.

 

What was the Impact of All Those Letters?

Margaret asked Amy to share, what changed for her after she sent those 580 handwritten letters?

Amy responded that it connected her with people on a deeper level, regardless of political differences. She believes nothing can separate us when we connect like that.

Amy believes that people may hold on to these letters more than they think.

 

Challenge: Get Your Pens Out

David and Margaret discussed the importance of slowing down and taking time to write letters, emphasizing that it can strengthen relationships. One idea is a letter to express what we love about or appreciate the recipient.

And in the tradition of our podcast guests, Amy challenged the audience to write one hand-written note to a friend or family member — on a piece of paper, a card or a sticky note.

Ep 154: Dealing with the Death of a Loved One

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Ep 154: Dealing with the Death of a Loved One
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Dealing with the Death of a Loved One

In this episode, David and Margaret discussed the topic of dealing with the death of a loved one — an admittedly uncomfotable topic.

Margaret had just learned about the death of a person she cared deeply about — and was feeling the loss. Margaret shared that her friend demostrated intentionality and grace during her 18-month journey after her diagnosis of pancreatic cancer.

This had them exploring different ways people cope with their own mortality, which can include acceptance, kicking-and-screaming levels of resistance, or avoidance. And the way that the dying person deals with their own mentality can impact the texture of grief for survivors.

They emphasized the importance of preparing oneself for the inevitable end of life.

They notice that grief can linger if not properly addressed, meaning if we repress or avoid it. When we don’t experience our grief, we can become afraid of it. And when we are terrified of loss, it becomes very hard to fully love.

A Family Member’s Suicide

David talked about dealing with the death of a loved one, specifically the emotional impact of the suicide of David’s sister on his father.

David shared his observation that his father was devastated by the event — but never fully grieved. He would not even mention his daughter’s name. David believes his father’s unprocessed grief contributed to his father’s later systemic cancer.

And David also shared the impact of his father’s repressed grief on him as a young adult.

Not unlike his father, David developed his own coping mechanism of complete avoidance. He maintained that avoidance for 30 years, never speaking about this sad and massive life event. Finally, he opened up about his sister’s suicide during a leadership development program.

Margaret shared her father’s experience of losing a sibling to a drunk driver, which he also never brought up or talked about. She wondered if that might have contributed to his own resistance and suffering at the end of his life.

Boys Don’t Cry: Societal Pressure and Emotional (Un)Expression

As Margaret and David try — and fail — to recall ever seeing their own fathers cry, they discussed the societal pressure to suppress emotions, particularly for men.

Margaret shared her personal experience of how much she used to hate crying in public. That changed for her after attending the Hoffman Institute process, which led her to cry frequently and openly.

David recalled his childhood experience of being shamed for crying in school, which he believed contributed to his suppressed emotions for many years. They both agreed that the societal norms around emotional expression are changing, and there is a slowly growing acceptance of emotional vulnerability.

Grief Is Natural — And Necessary

Margaret and David discussed the importance of grieving and acknowledging loss in their lives.

Margaret shared a passage from a book, “The Smell of Rain on Dust,” by Martín Prechtel. She was gifted the book from a good friend after her father’s death. The book emphasizes the natural and necessary process of grieving.

David and Margaret encourage anyone going through a similar experience to reach out to them for support.

Ep 153: With People Slow is Fast and Fast is Slow

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Ep 153: With People Slow is Fast and Fast is Slow
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With People, slow is fast and fast is slow

David and Margaret discussed the significance of Stephen Covey’s saying, “With people, slow is fast and fast is slow.”

Inspired by David’s slow recover from knee surgery — including his choice of entertainment during his convalescence — our hosts talk about what “slow” might mean.

David and his wife, Lillian, are watching an older TV show (David Lynch’s Twin Peaks), and it had them notice that older shows and movies often had longer camera shots and slower pacing. That cadence feels in strong contrast to the faster-paced scenes, dialogue or setting shots of more contemporary entertainment. Our hosts reminisced about how these older works of art demonstrated patience and more focus on detail. These older works moved more slowly.

It had them wondering: what might be the benefits of taking a page from the pace of entertainment from a couple decades ago — to slow down and appreciate details?

 

Balancing Technology and Human Relations

They discussed the importance of slowing down in human relationships.

Technology, they note, may have accelerated to a point where our nervous systems can’t keep up any more. They agreed that technology makes for speedier and efficient communication. But they also note these quick communications often leads to misinterpretation and misunderstandings.

David encourages leaders to think about what might be possible if they slow down in their communications. Specifically, he believes it is possible to recapture their intuition by seeking slower, more intentional communication methods. Even picking up the phone instead of shooting off a text might help avoid misreads and improve relationships.

Margaret touched on the generational aspect of this issue. They concur that some people may be more comfortable with faster communication due to their upbringing with technology.

 

The Art of Slowing Down

David and Margaret look at some areas of leadership, work and relationships that might benefit from a slow down.

The topic of tricky relationships comes up regularly in executive coaching sessions. Often, the solution and repair can only be found by more intentional and slower face-to-face communication.

Another place it might be important to slow down is in our storytelling. There is a strong relationship between patient, artful storytelling and great fundraising and leadership.

Last, slowing down is essential if we want to create intimacy and trust in relationships. Only by slowing down can we lay the foundation for better understanding and connection. Taking time to understand and connect with people will always yield better relationships than rushing.

Putting It into Action

• Listeners are encouraged to find and watch an older movie or TV show (from the 1940s to early 1990s), and notice the slower pacing and longer camera shots.
• Reflect on how patience and slowing down makes you feel when you watch — and how slowing down might serve you in your personal and professional relationships.
• Practice slowing down in your daily life, such as by taking a breath and looking around.

Ep 152: Embracing Disruptive Events and Emotions

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Ep 152: Embracing Disruptive Events and Emotions
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Embracing Disruptive Events: The Paradox of Planned Disruption

Embracing disruptive events and emotions? How in the world is one supposed to do that?

In the episode, as David prepares for an upcoming surgery, David and Margaret have a look at the seeming paradox of planned disruptive events. Examples might include a surgery or significant life changes such as having a friend or family member in hospice, retirement, or making an undesired move across the country.

What is the paradox of such events? We might have notice and can plan for these events — but we still can’t control the ways our lives will be disrupted. And we can’t control the range of emotions that come up when we contemplate known but unwelcome events.

David is anticipating a total knee replacement surgery. But even though it’s planned, it will be quite disruptive.

Such events can evoke a range of emotions, including anxiety, dread, and uncertainty. David was feeling all those emotions.

So how can one be with the anticipation of planned disruption?

 

Allow the Emotions Just … To Be

They explore the wisdom of accepting these emotions rather than trying to suppress them.

They discuss what it feels like when we have more than one emotion at a time. This can feel complicated and disruptive for people.

They also discussed what happens when we surrender to the situation and accept that the event is inevitable. Sometimes, when we surrender and accept the situation, we start the process of embracing disruptive events and emotions. Then, we can turn our focus to the potential gifts or opportunities that may arise from a tough life circumstance.

 

Addressing Medical Trauma and Anxiety

Our hosts talk about one possible reason for dread around an upcoming medical procedure or surgery. That is is the concept of medical trauma. This can happen when people have had negative experiences with doctors that make them resistant to seeking medical care. David shares his concerns about the bodily trauma involved in a major surgery despite being under anesthesia.

Margaret suggests acknowledging the anxiety rather than suppressing it, and finding compassion for the body’s healing process.

David talks about using trust in the unfoldment as a tool for anxiety. He also finds it helpful to stay occupied. Margaret and David concur that not acknowledging anxiety often goes worse than acknowledging it.

They relate the surgery to other life events involving grief and loss.

 

Emotional Impact of Disruptive Events

David and Margaret invite listeners to ask themselves: is it better to know or not know ahead about disruptive events? Are you a person who would rather know (“I’d rather plan!”) or not know (“I’d rather be surprised!”)? And, why?

They concluded by encouraging listeners to reach out for help if they are experiencing any disruptive events in their lives.

Ep 151: 2024 Rearview Mirror and 2025 Windshield

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Ep 151: 2024 Rearview Mirror and 2025 Windshield
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What’s in your 2024 rearview mirror and 2025 windshield?

This episode takes a look backwards in 2024 (the rearview mirror) and what’s ahead (through the windshield) for 2025.

Margaret and David aren’t fans of making resolutions. But they are all about being intentional about who you want to BE in the coming year.

Tune in to hear them discuss their personal journeys of acceptance and leadership in 2024.

 

Margaret’s 2024 “rearview”: Accepting a Challenging Relationships

Margaret reflects on accepting her complicated relationship with her late father, who passed away last October. Despite their sometimes difficult history, she is proud that she embraced acceptance towards the end. She was able to let go of judgment and expectations — and that transformed their relationship dynamic. This allowed them to find peace together before his passing.

David acknowledges Margaret’s intentionality in this process.

They consider the topic of acceptance through a leadership lens. All of us have difficult relationships. But when we keep expecting someone else to change or do something different, we are the ones who are constantly upset and disappointment.

Sometimes our work is not to expect a different outcome. Because if we are able to accept people as they are, rather than trying to change them, we can often discover surprising gifts.

 

David Celebrates a Triumphant Quest

David shared his experience of receiving his black belt in jujitsu last month. His journey took 9-years and around 9,000 sparring rounds.

He highlighted the importance of perseverance and grit.

“You never really know what you’re getting into until you get into it,” David reflects. He shares that the journey was filled with a lot of blood (literal blood), sweat and tears. It was frequently not fun.

Our hosts wonder: what are the leadership lessons he learned from sticking with something that isn’t always enjoyable? They explore the value of knowing when to persevere versus when to change course — and what might lead to break-downs or break-throughs.

David encourages listeners to reflect on their past year and identify and acknowledge themselves for something they are most proud of.

 

Looking Ahead to 2025: Exploring Words for the New Year

Margaret and David discussed their respective words for the upcoming year (2025). They choose words to help them aspire to how they want to BE in the coming year.

Margaret recounts doing a process with one of her teachers, Rachael Jayne Groover, and received the word “spaciousness.” David opted for the word “patience.”

They explored the meanings and implications of these words. Margaret saw “spaciousness” as a call to cultivate qualities that open up space, such as curiosity and self-management.

David, on the other hand, saw “patience” as a way to navigate the uncertainty of the upcoming year. David is aware that there is a gap now that he met his black belt goal, and that gap will require his patience. He draws inspiration from his father’s peaceful and patient nature.

They concluded the conversation by encouraging others to reflect on their own words for the year and share them in the comments of their upcoming LinkedIn post.

Ep 150: Bringing Your Heart to Work

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Ep 150: Bringing Your Heart to Work
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In this episode, David and Margaret discuss the power of bringing your heart to work.

“Empathy Techniques” vs. Genuine Empathy

Our hosts heard the term “empathy techniques” recently while listening to a refresh of the Positive Intelligence programs — and felt compelled to double click on this concept.

How is an empathy technique different from genuine empathy? And why would a leader or a fundraiser chose to deploy one instead of the other?

The idea of empathy as a technique sounds alarmingly manipulative. David offered a possible example: Bill Clinton’s “I feel your pain” statement. Margaret offered another example of an empathy technique: the practice of asking questions from a pre-determined list, hoping to appear curious (rather than simply being curious).

Genuine empathy, on the other hand, is the genuine feeling of another person’s pain.

 

Genuine Empathy Isn’t Always Simple

Allowing ourselves to feel another’s emotions — which might include anger, joy, grief, and sadness — is a very human and humane act. It’s not always easy.

Some of us have more capacity with empathy when it comes to certain emotions. For example, for some, being around other people’s anger or grief feels very hard. Their tendency would be to step over it. They might be scared to step into someone else’s grief because they don’t know how to step back out.

For others, they resist  being empathic with other people’s joy. Brené Brown has notably talked about her terror around joy.

David expressed his appreciation for Margaret’s recent empathic listening about a difficult time in his life, involving the suicide of his sister and his father’s struggle with guilt.

Margaret differentiated between true empathy and faking it. True empathy might involve feeling and holding space for others’ emotions. Faking empathy might stem from being uncomfortable. An example might involve: someone shares about the death of a parent … and the listener offers words of condolence and then quickly changes the subject.

 

Wired for Connection

David and Margaret discussed the capacity of human beings to feel and connect with others’ emotions. It is biologically wired into us.

Still some people learn to put up emotional filters as a survival mechanism. One path to putting away some of these filters and access more real empathy starts as an internal journey to embrace one’s inner mess.

To access more genuine empathy and compassion, there are many tools, including:

  • Begin practicing self-compassion, or being compassionate towards oneself. David shared how he used to find it easier to generate empathy for others than for himself. Fortunately this has evolved over time.
  • Another way to generate compassion for others is to imagine the other person as a child. That can include considering what happened in their life to make them behave in a certain way. This tool can be particularly helpful to generate warmth when dealing with people who are unkind or critical.
  • The practice of focusing on the heart to generate warmth.
  • Making a choice to give yourself or the other person a break.

All these tools require courage.

 

Empathy and Emotional Intelligence in Leadership

Finally, David and Margaret discussed the importance of empathy and genuine listening in leadership roles.

This concept has applications for fundraising. It is also important in team meetings.

David suggested the practice of “clearing” to create space for team members to share personal struggles. He found this practice led to increased productivity and a more supportive team environment.

They encourage listeners to consider: bringing one’s heart to work (along with your brain!) can be beneficial.

Ep 149: Dealing with Uncertainty and Making Decisions

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Ep 149: Dealing with Uncertainty and Making Decisions
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David and Margaret share their strategies for dealing with uncertainty and making decisions.

How DO leaders make decisions, particularly when the stakes are high?

The conversation originated from David’s process when he and his wife had to decide whether or not to evacuate as Hurricane Milton approached. As a resident of the West Coast of Florida, it was headed right towards him.

Intuition in Decision-Making and Travel Plans

David recounted his experiences with hurricanes Irma and Ian, as he tried to extrapolate information for making a decision about the most recent hurricane, Milton. He weighed the importance of heeding warnings to evacuate and the potential consequences of not doing so.

Still he didn’t know what to do … until he did.

David’s process highlights some important elements of the decision-making process:

  • The importance of not forcing decisions
  • The discomfort of being in the “liminal space” of not yet having decided yet (“liminal space” is place between “no longer” and “not yet”)
  • The power of intuition in decision-making

David shared how he ultimately made a decision about how to handle the hurricane.

The “Art” of NOT Making a Decision

Sometimes, people make decisions before they know everything they need to know. Other times, people put off making decisions.

And sometimes, NOT making a decision lives in the land of Avoider, which is a saboteur. And sometimes, not deciding actually becomes a decision.

Where, they challenge listeners, is your sweet spot in between deciding too soon — and avoiding making a decision?

Intuition in Decision-Making

They also discussed the role of intuition in decision-making. How might using our guts and hearts be useful in making decisions?

Margaret shared her experience of transitioning from a cerebral to a more intuitive approach when she was looking for a new place to live post-divorce. She responds to David’s question, “How did you KNOW?”

Many of us are taught to use pro-con lists and use only our brains to weigh out consequences and run scenarios to decide. This was true for both Margaret and David, who come from a history of making rational and analytical decisions.

And cerebral decision making has value, but David and Margaret have both learned to incorporate more intuition into making choices.

Most of us can benefit from listening to one’s gut and heart in addition to relying only on lists and pros and cons.

How Emotions Tangle Decision-Making

David also hunted for a house recently. He recounts how emotions made it a difficult process.

He and his wife struggled to find a new place because they were still emotionally attached to their house. Their process involved a lot of going back and forth between their brains and their hearts.

They encourage listeners to look at the perspective of how things often work out in unexpected ways. What might the perspective of “We’ll see” have to offer you?

And if you’d like to help your team learn how to use intuition to be better leaders, please check out our trainings.